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Sven Roeder 3:38 Thu Mar 9
Which club model should we be following?

We know Lady Brady can't get enough of telling us how wonderful Arsenal are but are they are realistic role model for us?

I just don't see us ever matching the likes of Man U and competing against teams like Man City and Chelsea for transfer targets

Borussia Dortmund are a team from a distance that seem to be getting it right. Buying hungry young players and have the understanding that the best will be sold on eventually while having a club that seems close to its fans.
Are we BARKING up the wrong tree?

That said I don't see the current owners embracing such a concept as it's not ego driven enough. And Brady lacks the football understanding to even contemplate anything other than her Mini-Arsenal ambitions.

Darby_ 6:31 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Side of Ham, I do think the stadium will stay full with our academy products playing out there. In fact, I think it's even more likely they will.

Let's be honest, we talk about chasing City and Chelsea, but in reality they're still a level above us. We'd be chasing Liverpool and Spurs. Secondly, as Alex says, investing in an academy is a route to success. We produced half an England team not so long ago. The difference is that success would take a little longer that it would if we just buy latest 30 million Cameroonian.

I don't think people would be impatient waiting for success if they could see our youngsters out there on the pitch. In fact, I think they get more impatient when the Daves make grand claims about the sort of players we're going to bring in, then bring in the likes or Fonte and Snodgrass.

The mention of Ferdinand, Lampard etc is a bit silly. Financially we're at a different level to where we were in the Terry Brown years.

Takashi Miike 5:38 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

unless agents are banned in the near future, and unless we're prepared to match the wages paid by the big boys, we'll always lose any good youngster. selling Rio was the beginning of the end for me. I watched the team that beat Metz thinking we were on the verge of greatness, yet in reality were just two to three years from a return to obscurity. only a cunt like Brown could have overseen that

jack flash 5:36 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

We should be model ourselves on Man City

Sell out to arab billionaires craving success, getting a top manager in, buying top players in & buying everyone else's best young players

Think big in other words

Bear in mind that not too many seasons ago Man City were floundering around in the lower reaches while their obnoxious neighbours were winning everything in sight

Side of Ham 5:23 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Darby, West Ham fans then live in a dream world where young players stay for their best years because it's great at West Ham and they can achieve all their ambitions there.

The reality is unless we have a team with some big names in (because we are now in a stadium that RIVALS clubs already with big name stars) these very good crops of 'ACADEMY' players will move to likes of Man City, Chelsea etc very quickly with us getting very little benefit or even great fees.

NO West Ham fan wants that and i even think the owners have stated as much.

You name me a fan that was happy to see Rio, Cole, Johnson even Lampard leave because they had the opportunity to go onto bigger and better things, what's changed since then between us and the top end of football to keep them here?

Clubs focused on Academies SUPPLY Chelsea, Man City etc if you are not on the same level.

I'm saying in a 60,000+ Stadium it will not stay full and the club will eventually be given up on
by the next few generations.

Alex V 5:17 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Darby_ 4:48 Sun Mar 12

I disagree in that I think we can both push for success and represent values that the supporters can get behind and enjoy. Having a productive academy would not lead to less success on the pitch - it would lead to more. More quality, more value in the squad, freeing up more resources to spend on the key senior signings to complement younger players.

alfie romeo 5:16 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

The New England Patriots.

hammerintheorient 5:10 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Agree with Ajax and Southampton in terms of focusing on a good production line; invest accordingly!

Darby_ 4:48 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Side of Ham, I don't think we HAVE to do anything. If the Daves decide to go down the course of rebuilding the academy then that's their decision to make. They don't have to chase Man City or Chelsea, even if we moved into a stadium ten times the size of the OS. It's their club, they can do what they want.

I think the fans would prefer watching academy players out in the middle, instead of the latest star Cameroonian or Bosnian. Unlike most clubs, West Ham isn't just about success.

In the past few years I've been very outspoken about putting pragmatism before anything else. I supported Sam and a pragmatic approach to results just so we could be in the position that we're now in. With the sort of financial strength we have now, we're unlikely to be relegated. We can choose a much less pragmatic path and concentrate on rebuilding the academy and developing an attractive style of football.

And for once we can concentrate on doing those things without fear of relegation. And I think the fans would be happier taking that route. As I say, being a West Ham fan is about more than just success.

Alex V 4:26 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

JayeMPee 11:45 Sun Mar 12

Exactly. What many fans and the owners themselves seem to crave is a model that in theory and practice has been proven not to work. Senseless.

JayeMPee 11:45 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

If Sullivan is to be believed quality players didn't want to join us last summer, so much for the 'draw' of our magnificent stadium.

Worse still if we continue to play the crap of late then very few decent players will want to sign up.

Sniper 10:49 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

The key really is accepting that, until you're the best team, th chances are your best players will continually have their heads turned by bigger and better clubs. There's little you can do about that - lukaku at Everton is a rare exception, but in general teams outside the champions league get picked off constantly. Even teams in the champions league do - look at arsenal.

So what's important is good scouting and a good network identifying players in an accepted system. Even with that it's hard to keep the success going (Southampton are finding this season that having constantly changing managers has a bit of a breaking point, but they're still mid table and should have won the league cup) but you need to be consistently building the team and squad depth

Sniper 10:43 Sun Mar 12
Re: Which club model should we be following?

V

Agreed - Ive been banging the drum for redmond for ages

We also missed out on him in the summer and went for tore and feghouli instead which was utter nonsense

We also missed out on demarai gray and jack butland - both highly rated yet cheap at the time and both in positions we needed someone when they were bought by their current clubs

Alex V 3:07 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

We could have bought Redmond for £2m in 2013. Why didn't we? The only answer I can offer is that we're incompetent.

Sven Roeder 2:44 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Schneiderlin would have replaced Noble
Redmond is a strange one .... England u21 international and scored against us in both games for Norwich last season.
Trippier has had 2 or 3 seasons watching Walker and playing 15-20 odd lesser games .... he must be open to offers as he needs to play.

Of course everyone has a list
I just want ours to be players that will improve us not the 'cheaper' option of the player we need and panic buys like Ayew.

Alex V 2:20 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Sven Roeder 2:07 Sat Mar 11

I think the trouble with that it just becomes a laundry list built in hindsight - why didn't we buy Vardy, Mahrez and Kante we could have won the league for £7m ish! Doesn't take 70m! Of course if we didn't invest such huge amounts in big contracts for expensive players we might have that extra 60-70m just by not being stupid with overspending. Probably Ayew, Snodgrass and Fonte cost us 70m odd when you add their contracts in - we could generate that money by avoiding the daft signings.

We can't buy Trippier. Schneiderlin would replace Obiang, close to our best player this season, not very sensible imo. Redmond I suggested on here and got shot down - fans and too don't want to buy from relegated clubs because of hubris. Gueye was the player there we really missed out on, and then we wouldn't need to pay silly money for Schneiderlin. There's no guarantee Gabbiadini would have fared any better than Zaza in our system - that's why I continually argue that we need to modernise our pattern of play and not rely on massive target men. The devil's in the detail.

Side of Ham 2:19 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

It's not flawed, it's the main factor of why we HAD to move according to them to put us amongst the big clubs.All fine as long as you are willing to spend like those big clubs have on players in the past which even at 25 million for one player we haven't got near the sorts of spending they have done.

We have to breakdown some barriers in order to make these clubs worry AND convince the extra 25,000 we have now, that we mean business.It's not about being clever it's about getting rid of the "Nice club but an easy 6 points" legacy we have amongst the media.The media drive the "Brands" up in this modern shitfest of football.

By the way this is all invited bullshit from the owners, not me.

Alex V 2:08 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

>>> Alex V so you just swap out the player with conjecture and then advocate nothing but the fucking obvious.

I don't know what that means, but actually the principles of developing your own players, buying players with upsides, not wasting resources is so very obvious. I find it bizarre that such simple principles need to be debated. You seem obsessed with the size of the stadium and the idea of 'massive clout'. As if pining enough will change the rules for sensible decision making. It won't.

The good news for you and Sir Alf is the club seems likely to do exactly what you want this Summer. Big money on expensive signings. Just as it did in previous years, with Ayew and Valencia and Carroll and Jarvis. And in 12 months, like every season, you'll be back here wondering what went wrong with that approach, and presumably saying how we must have yet more money spent on even more expensive players.

It's the delusional Sky Sports mentality of the modern supporter, sad to say. Delusional. Sadly it also appears to be the mentality of our main owner and DoF.

We will go nowhere as a club until better principles are adopted and seen through properly.

Sven Roeder 2:07 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

I agree that we need to buy the best players we can to WIN football matches but you just get the sinking feeling that choices are being made not on player quality but on the cheaper (or loanable) options
Some players we COULD have bought realistically ...
Gabbiadini (instead of Zaza)
Redmond (instead of Feghouli)
Schneiderlin
Trippier (instead of Arbeloa)

Probably saved £60m-£70m by not ..... and lost a dozen points

Alex V 1:56 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Sven Roeder 1:01 Sat Mar 11

Couldn't agree more. But winning is ultimately what is exciting - we were pretty much the same side this season than last, but it's not so much fun when you're losing most weeks.

Fonte and Snodgrass were awful signings - I've said as much throughout. But the club actually see them as quality signings - that's the problem. They're Sullivan's 'buying for now' players. Whether players are free transfers or not is irrelevant. Obsessing over price alone as a signifier of quality is nonsense imo - we need to buy smarter not necessarily bigger.

Using this 'we have to buy for 60,000' is incredibly flawed logic. Buy for success - that's all that matters.

Deany_Mac 1:25 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

The Premier League is very different to the other major leagues around the world. It has more than just a few top teams, so the chances of breaking into that top 4 is a lot harder than in other leagues. That makes it harder for that extra cash injection that European football gives, plus the status some players want when it come to wanting "regular" champions league football.

That said, we wouldnt be a top team in most of the half decent european leagues anyway

Side of Ham 1:10 Sat Mar 11
Re: Which club model should we be following?

Alex V so you just swap out the player with conjecture and then advocate nothing but the fucking obvious.

Your just full of piffle and hindsight, whereas i offer up the fact that those English club's with 55,000+ stadiums to fill ALL have used and still use massive financial clout to maintain their capacities as their main way of maintaining their status.

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